Adventure Racing and Out There Packs Review by Captain Ahab

Adventure Racing and Out There Pack Review by Captain Ahab

                When I first started Adventure Racing I used my Camelbak Mule, which was really too small for 8 hour races.  It was fine for shorter races and training, but I just couldn’t shove enough in it for anything longer than a few hours.  I started being envious of my teammates Out There MS-1’s because of their forward hip and chest pockets.  I added some temporary hip pockets to my Mule for food, but it just wasn’t the same.  I then got my hands on a larger Camelbak, but it rode low on my back and no matter how I adjusted the straps it would bounce all over my back.  It also did not have forward pockets.  I tried a ton of Camelbaks.(Some of the Camelbaks I own that are not suitable for AR are shown below.)

Anyone want to buy some Camelbaks?

I finally said enough is enough and bought a MS-1, which has 15L interior storage and 5L exterior storage.  http://outthereusa.com/

Captain Ahab's brand new MS-1.

                I started training in it immediately and loved how it rode on my back.  In races, the front pockets were from Heaven as I could pull food out whenever I pleased.  The pack was also lighter weight than my Camelbaks, held more gear, and had more attachment points.  The permanent whistle is a great idea, but for some odd reason I still carry another one.  I need to break that unnecessary habit and delete that little extra weight.  I could put my shoes in the outer pockets with a 4 piece paddle, and my jacket.  It is a tight fit, but I started just attaching my shoes and let them swing about a bit to allow for more room.  This is how I still "stow" my shoes as it keeps dirt and stench out of my pack.  I don't even bother sticking the toe of the shoes in the external pockets like my teammates do.

Robert Bart's Osprey Talon and Captain Ahab's MS-1.

There were a few things I didn’t like about my MS-1.  My friend’s older MS-1 pack had a larger belt buckle, so I actually cut out the orginal smaller quick adjustable strap and buckle and sewed in the largest strap and buckle I could find.  (Mike just threw up some I bet.)  I preferred this because I could stow the adjustable tails away behind the hip “food bags” and the larger buckle didn’t cut into my fat gut as much.  I also missed the Velcro attachments that held the excess webbing on my Camelbak Mule, so I made some and sewed them on to my MS-1 (These are awesome Mike).  I then got a little crazy adding straps and interior pockets, but after time I never used them and decided to remove my added interior pockets, but kept the straps.  I normally use a large dry bag that fits all my gear and fits inside my MS-1.  Anything that doesn't fit gets strapped on or put in external pockets. Lastly, I found that the interior pockets behind the bladder were just not for me.  I could see some people using them, but I am all about function and having to remove a bladder, or move it out of the way, just doesn’t make sense to me, so I refuse to use them.  If you were not using a bladder they would be great as they fit a UTM and Markers perfectly. 

Stuffing my hat and jacket in my MS-1.

                My slightly modified MS-1 lasted me 6 years of heavy training and rough racing.  I wore it all the time, so much so that my wife called me “Dora the Explorer” and the roadies I ride with called me “Backpack Man.” I used it in several 24 hour races and a 30 hour.

https://youtu.be/U9N_ue806Zg

               After 6 years of heavy use I was bragging about what a great pack it is to my teammates that were searching for a new pack.  This jinxed my pack and a day later the main zipper tore about an inch away from the pack.  Before that I only had one small rip in the rip stop nylon from barb wire.  I just kept an eye on it and it never spread.  I was devastated at the thought of having to replace my beloved MS-1.

Team BOR likes duct tape.

Neil Dickhaus
 with Dave Cortivo's MS-1
 and Larson's Medical Kit.

                I started thinking about my friends larger AS-2 that he has.  I have raced with him several times and always give him trouble about stowing items in his rear pockets.  He says, “Hey, put this in my backpack.”  I say, “Which pocket? Pocket 1A2C, 2B3D, C3PO, or R2D2?”  It has so many pockets that they need labeling.  It is really just jealously that I tease him about his pack and I would love to have the newer AS-3 version of this pack for longer races.  I will eventually purchase one as the MS-1 is probably too small for expeditions.  http://outthereusa.com/as-3-pack-360/
              
               I ended up deciding that for the time being that I don’t want the larger pack and I start looking at my teammates Osprey Talon 22’s (22L storage).  They seem to like them and try to sell me on their highlights, but every time I spy theirs I don’t see much I like.  I decide that is not fair and head to a local retailer to try one on.  I grab a Talon 22 and it immediately feels heavier than my MS-1.  I start to look at the “suspension system” that is supposed to balance the weight for comfort, but then I notice the lack of forward pockets.  I also notice the hip pockets are small and hard to reach and remember my teammates ripped up mesh hip pockets and ripped up mesh outer back pocket.  The mesh on my MS-1 never ripped.  I set it down and tell the salesman I’m not interested.  I tell him I just want my MS-1 back.  I remember my teammate telling me that Osprey has a lifetime warranty, so I decide that I would drive home and try to contact Out There Packs to see if they can repair my pack, replace it, or give me a discount on a new MS-1. 



Larry Lazo loving his MS-1 like a baby and fingering his...what? Yuck!
Karl Kilthau in the background mesmerized by Larry. 



                I contact Mike Kloser of Out There Packs, tell him about my situation and send him some pictures.  He explains to me what I thought I would hear that the repair would be too costly because the entire main zipper would need to be replaced.  He offers me a new MS-2 at a great discount and I snatch one up quickly.  I want to mention that Mike helped me all through the week and over the weekend answering my many questions and offering me advise.  He also shipped my new pack in time for the upcoming race I was preparing for that next weekend.  I doubt you will get this type of service anywhere else.  Mike is awesome, so much so that I hit him up for a TeamBOR sponsorship and he agreed!

Captain Ahab's Brand New MS-2!

                I chose a black MS-2 because it had the new removable hip belt option and still had the mesh pockets instead of rip stop nylon.  I chose the mesh over the rip stop because it held up much better on my MS-1.  I believe the blue MS-2 had mesh, and the orange had more rip stop.  The MS-2 has bigger hip pockets!  It also has dual bladder attachments.  I don’t know if I will use the removable hip belt, but it is a cool idea.  I will try it out before I dismiss it. 

Add a Hip Pack Pocket to make your
removable belt hold more.

 

Removable belt with Hip Pack Pocket installed.

I have been using the removable hip belt webbing adjusters to move my hip pockets fore and aft.  The pack also has webbing tail stowage and a trekking tow attachment.  It does have that smaller quick adjust belt buckle, but I’m just going to try and get used to it (no modifying this pack).  I just find that I grab the wrong strap when trying to buckle without looking.  I would like to have stowage for the adjustable tails as I usually set mine and forget about them.  The pack still has all the cool features of the MS-1, but is just new and improved.  It is also slightly bigger.  Mike's specs below.

"Compact and feature-rich, our MS-2’s lighter weight means more comfort and energy for “done-in-a-day” outings, such as adventure racing, climbing, short ski tours, bike adventures, or just walking around town. It offers a full-featured, ultra-comfortable design in a versatile and ventilated day-pack. Offering highly efficient and accessible storage options, while exhibiting a simplified fit with upgraded style and materials. One of the highlights of the new MS-2 pack is the detachable Hip Belt, which doubles as a separate Hip Pack.

• Colors – Black, Blue, Orange
• 2 in 1 Hip Belt– Airmesh lined, with NEW -ergonomic 1” waist belt webbing & buckle. NEW -Adjustable width buckle system under back panel, NEW-Hip Belt detaches from pack for use as separate Hip Pack
• “Beaver Tail Pockets”™– 4 easy access pockets on shoulder straps (2 zip, NEW -1 water resistant) NEW -Velcro attachment for swapping with Bottle Tail accessory pockets
• Stow Pocket– NEW –Zipper pocket on bottom of pack with towline/key ring tab, and NEW -Ice Axe tip slots
• 2 Accessory Webbing Loops– Bottom of pack with buckles for Ice axe, poles or skis NEW -Adjustable buckle added to 2nd strap
• Accessory Bungee Cords– Bungees with NEW -squeeze cord lock hooks and webbing tabs for attaching helmet
• Internal Stretch Mesh– NEW – 4-way stretch mesh on internal pockets for more pocket storage volume
• Elastic Webbing Loops– NEW – Elastic keepers to gather excess webbing on shoulder straps and chest strap
• 4  External Pockets – 2 side easy access, one lg. helmet compatible, one zippered. Note; NEW Orange model, all external pockets on main pack body are Rip stop nylon

Packed with Features

In addition to the NEW upgraded features, the MS-2 incorporates the signature features listed below:

• Rip Stop Nylon – Durable, silicon treated water resistant, light weight construction
• Foam Padded Venting  – Airmesh covered foam venting on back panel
• Ergonomic Shoulder Straps– Airmesh wrapped perforated foam for enhanced comfort
• Chest Strap– Vertical and width adjustable, with integrated buckle whistle
• 2 Hip Belt Pockets– Integrated, easy access zippered pockets (one water resistant)
• 2 Hip Belt Water Bottle Pockets– Convenient easy to reach side mesh pockets
• Hydration Bladder Compartment– Internal sleeve-compatible to stow laptop
• Hydration tube External Port– Two internal webbing/hook attachments for bladder
• 3 Internal Organizer Pockets– One mesh pockets (1 zippered), 1 nylon organizer pocket
• 4-Side Compression Straps– Double as Ski or Snowboard attachment straps
• Top Zipper Pocket – With waterproof zipper, stows strap for diagonal ski attachment
• 4 Nylon/plastic Webbing Tabs– Sewn on bottom of pack for attaching camping gear"

One bad ass MS-2!

                I have used my MS-2 in two races now.  The first thing I noticed is that I didn’t really realize it was on until late in the race.  That’s a great thing!  The forward pockets are even better than the MS-1’s.  The only issue I find is that the removable hip belt sometimes pops out some, but that’s probably because I moved the hip pockets forward some by loosening the straps.  It’s really no big deal as when you go to put it on you just have to push them back in, but I wish I didn’t have to. (Update 01-06-18) just realized I didn't have the straps installed correctly and now they stay in much better).  Another positive is that the bladder stays in place better with the new attachment.  I set up the trekking tow, but I couldn’t get my teammates to try it out, which probably saved my legs. 
               

Mesh chest pockets and nylon covered straps on MS-1

One H2O resistant chest pocket and mesh covered straps on MS-2.

Larger hip bags on MS-2.

"Camelbak" tail accumulator modification.

MS-1 front, MS-2 rear bladder attachment.

One concern I have on MS-2 is that the heavy duty mesh and rip stop nylon has been replaced with stretchy "cheaper Osprey looking" mesh.  We will see if it holds up inside the pack.

                I couldn’t let my old trusty MS-1 die so I tore out the old zipper and searched all over for a new one.  I couldn’t find the exact one, but I bought one that was a close second and sewed it back in (I should have asked Mike where to get one).  It functions and looks good from the outside, but I made a mess of the inside.  If I would have taken my time I could have made it better, but it was better than throwing an awesome pack away.  I can always clean up the inside later if I want.  I will use my MS-1 for training and my MS-2 for racing, which will hopefully extend the life of my MS-2.  I could also sell a bunch of my Camelbaks and my MS-1 and buy some more Out There's!

             Our team almost exclusively runs either Out There Packs or Osprey Packs.  We have a large AR team with around 30 members.  I think Osprey is slightly beating out Out There as the most used pack on the team, but that is because our team is full of cheap bastards.  I need to figure out that percentage.  Rough estimate looks like a 60/40 split.  Now that Out There is sponsoring Team BOR I think that balance will shift into Out There's favor.  Why buy a pack that is not designed for adventure racing when Out There Packs are?  It seems like a simple decision to me.

               

Alane Wollins new MS-2.

I think she loves her pack.

I have asked the team to give me honest feedback on their Out There and Osprey Packs and will post it here.

Osprey Packs = "Belt pockets, but not very big. Had held up really well. Has tiny pocket on shoulder strap, but can't fit much in it; It has whistle to satisfy AR requirements. About the right size for up to 24 hr race. Fairly simple; not a ton of different pockets. Water resistant at least. Not adjustable. Like the orange color!" JESSIE BROWN

"Captain Ahab, I’m still not convinced that the MS 1 can hold 24 hours worth of AR gear. If you have the cash to buy expensive packable gear (a fleece for example) and all the mandatory gear you may have to pack for a race that’s my AS 2 (? I think that is the one I use for 24 hour). So what I’m getting at is recommend that if your only gonna buy 1 bag then get the larger of the two. Also, I have had my MS1 for over 4 years and I have only had to do 1 repair and it was my fault. Not the bags. Hope this helps." LARRY LAZO

Larrys MS-1. He also has and AS-2...spoiled brat!

"I’ve used the MS-1 for up to 84-hrs. We had the ability to re-pack every 24-hrs. It worked great!!  And it still had the ability to clip on lots of gear if needed. A larger pack could give you extra space, but extra space could mean just packing extra gear which just adds extra weight." PAUL FRISBEE

"Agree Paul. While I have not raced that long if you have the ability to repack for different sections that would make a huge difference. Also, good points on the outside of the pack. Mike made sure there were plenty of tie down points on the outside." LARRY LAZO

"Osprey 22L Talon. https://www.osprey.com/us/en/

Pros: large main pocket works great for storing large amounts of gear. Pack has a small outboard zipper pocket on top and one inside the main pack for storing smaller pieces (e blanket, lighter etc) so you don’t have to empty the pack at gear checks. Built in helmet carrying system. Integrated pole (think paddles or walking sticks) carrying system. Stiffer backing between the bladder and back keeps the pack fitting the same whether a full or empty bladder is installed. Many more load adjustments on the straps than any camelbak I have owned.

Osprey will repair/replace the pack for free with their all mighty guarantee. As with most packs, integrated whistle.

Cons: hip pouches are a bit small.  Mesh on kangaroo pouch and hip pockets will tear over time with bushwhacking. Mesh tends to get sticky if you put empty gel wrappers in it. (Annoying thing, not really a con)" KEVIN MINTON

Kevin's Osprey Talon 22

Kevin's dog Osprey...Kevin likes Osprey packs we guess.

Team Mates Osprey (not sure of model).

Damn...now I have to buy an Out There AS-3!  I also want the 45-L for backpacking - Ahab.